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Jun 28, 2024

The Power of Hiring the Right People

In this week’s episode, Mark and Cole are pivoting to the importance of finding great people once your company structure is in place. Their conversation unpacks why having the right people in the right roles is crucial for creating enduring value and success and touches on the significance of trust, character, and connection in building a cohesive and resilient team.

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Cole Abbott (00:00:00 -> 00:00:08)

Now continuing our conversation, uh, from previously Yeah. Structure first, people second. Yeah. So now we are on the,

Mark Abbott (00:00:08 -> 00:00:09)

We're onto people.

Cole Abbott (00:00:09 -> 00:00:11)

Onto people onto, onto part two,

Mark Abbott (00:00:12 -> 00:00:13)

P two.

Cole Abbott (00:00:13 -> 00:00:38)

Sure. <laugh>. That's okay. Just gonna move past that one. <laugh>. Uh, uh, so obviously people part two, right? Why are people, this is, this feels like a, a dumb question. Yeah. But Right. Just start off with it. Why are people so important and why is sorting that out as a core competency so important for an organization?

Mark Abbott (00:00:38 -> 00:04:00)

Yeah. I mean, well, it's obvious, right? We, you know, you know, there's talk these days of, you know, what, um, unicorn, single human being companies being started, I just call no bloody way. Um, so first thing, let's, let's go, let's go to the, you know, sort of one of my beliefs, right? Um, and that is we're all creators. Um, and that, if you want to look at it through a simple lens, one of the lenses that I like a lot, um, one of the frameworks, tools I like a lot is, you know, um, our friends at type coach, their version of Myers-Briggs, I think it's, you know, a brilliant system. And, um, you know, they, uh, have the four temperaments, right? Which is thinkers, feelers, doers, and guardians. And I, when, and so the nts are the thinkers and the NFS are the feelers. And, and the sps are the doers, and the sjs are the guardians and the critics and or the protectors. And I deeply believe it takes all four types to create something of enduring value, right? You have these people that are just, you know, great at coming up with a lot of ideas. Um, visionaries are classic versions of those, right? But then someone has to take that idea and turn it into, um, into reality. Now, on our way to thinking about whether that should become something, whether it should, something that we should turn into reality, we gotta think about, is this really something whose time has come? Is this something that people are gonna embrace? Um, is, you know, are we, are we ahead of ourselves? Um, as an example. And that's where the, the idealists, right? The feelers come into play, and they're like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think people are gonna buy into this. They're gonna support it, they're gonna help you evolve it, et cetera. Then obviously, we need someone to help us turn it into reality. And those are the doers. And all the while, the guardians, the critics, the protectors, are standing back and helping us make sure that we're not doing stupid things, that we're not forgetting about Chesterton's fence, right? Why in the heck are we, you know, we're not destroying something for a bad reason, or we're not creating something for a bad reason. So I, I deeply believe you need all four types of creators. Um, and then, so that's four human beings right there. And then ultimately, in order to really build something significant over time as the, uh, organization evolves, you need to start having experts across a host of domains. You know, we have 12 different departments in, at, at 90 now, so obviously I could go through all that, but marketing and sales, and we don't have sales, but we have partnerships, right? And, and creative and content and education and data and product, and, you know, all the stuff that we got, um, most people have heard it. So, uh, that's, those are all core functions and sub-functions, and we need people to be amazing at doing all those things. Um, and so, you know, so over time, you know, you have companies like ours who go from one person to what we're, what are we at? 180 people? That's a lot of people. Now the question is how do we go about making sure that we have the right people sitting in the right seats and right seats of structure, and then right. People, or, I'm sure there's more questions, and we'll get into that. I'll, I'll follow your lead on the next part of this. Well, I

Cole Abbott (00:04:00 -> 00:04:02)

Mean, you had it, right, <laugh>, how, how do we fill

Mark Abbott (00:04:03 -> 00:08:48)

Those seats with the right people, right? So what is right people? Yeah. Right? So, um, you know, one thing we we didn't talk too much about, maybe we talked a little bit about in the on structure podcast was, uh, trust, right? And so, character competency and connection. So the right people is character and connection, right? So obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, but character is, you know, people who we genuinely believe, um, have good intentions, are not there to harm us. They're there to help us. Uh, they're not, you know, mischievous or devious people. So that's the character stuff. And, you know, it's not a black and white thing, but it's pretty close to being black and white, right? If so, if you end up not trusting someone's character, it's really hard to have a long-term relationship with them. Um, so then we get into the connection side of trust, right? Which is, um, you know, the, the full of number of different, uh, uh, ingredients, uh, one of the most important of which is core values, right? So, so do they have values that align with our core values? Obviously, in order to make that happen, we needed to find our core values. Um, and, uh, and so, you know, the right people, our people that we genuinely want to be connected with, want to stay connected with, uh, are we are willing, able, and willing able, and this term I want to use, um, motivated to stay connected with, right? So if there's some people whose just value sets and motivations and interests and passion, right? Just don't align with yours, it's hard to, to, you know, stay connected with them. Um, and so, you know, one of the first things a lot of people do when they're upgrading their operating system is getting really clear on what your core values are, and then making sure that you're hiring people that have those core values or are reasonably well aligned with those core values. And I teach my clients that, you know, core values are all about behaviors, right? Um, it's, it's not about, you know, it's not about things that are competencies. It's, it's not about integrity. It's about the behaviors that you think are really important. You know, we have, you know, a company that, um, is comprised of people who work all over, you know, who interact with people like from, you know, every edge of the organization almost every single day. And so teamwork is one of our, you know, core values. And, and then, you know, we really want people to be thinking through the second and third order effect of the decisions they're making. And that's why we have GSSD as a core value. And we know from known from the start that we're gonna be growing pretty darn fast, right? Our goal is to grow 80 to a hundred percent a year. And, and, and not just for a couple years, but for a long, for a long time. And, you know, when that's when you're going that fast, you're gonna fall and sell. Resiliency has always been a super important thing for us. And then, you know, we also believe we're learning organization. We're constantly evolving and upgrading things. And so, inquisitiveness right? Was a really important core value of behavior for us. And then becoming better and better versions of the best version of self is another one of our core values. And that basically means is that, you know, you're ambitious for self, you're ambitious to grow and, and, and just become better, right? It's, it's, you're not, you're not stagnant. Um, you're willing to grow, you're willing to sort of, you know, wet back to resilience. You're willing to make some mistakes and, and just become a better, better person. And then finally, you know, our last core values, the extra mile, which we built to actually do two things, a little bit of the f Scotts Fitzgerald thing, right? Hold two contradictory thoughts and still function reasonably well, which is work life harmony. And if we need you to go the extra mile on occasion, we're, we, we, that's part of who we are, because we knew that things will happen. We will have, you know, we call 'em P Zeros, where, you know, everybody's just, regardless of what moment in time it is, everybody's gotta come together. A bunch of people gotta come together. And sometimes it's at eight or nine or 10 o'clock at night 'cause something breaks. Uh, good news is, doesn't happen very often. Um, but when it happens, you know, people need to know that's who we are. Um, so, uh, back to right people. It's people that we genuinely, um, enjoy working with and who sort of are, have behaviors that are aligned with the behaviors that we think are really important for us to be successful and turn our vision into reality.

Cole Abbott (00:08:51 -> 00:08:51)


Mark Abbott (00:08:51 -> 00:08:52)


Cole Abbott (00:08:55 -> 00:09:01)

So given that mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, there's a lot to digest there. Yeah, I know. I'm not gonna go, there's a ton of rabbit holes. We could go down <laugh>,

Mark Abbott (00:09:02 -> 00:09:02)

We like rabbit

Cole Abbott (00:09:02 -> 00:09:55)

Holes, and I'm going to hold at least in, in this temporary 30 minute format that we have. Yeah. I'm gonna resist that. Yeah. So the next, the the logical question is, these things make sense, right? And when it's said, when someone states it, it's like, yeah, that's that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. That seems obvious. Yeah. Right? But it's one thing to be able to agree with something that's been created, and then another thing understand it so deeply Yeah. As to be able to create it on your own or recreate it or, or bring it to life, right? In your particular situation, right? So where do people really struggle to grasp these concepts and right, we've discussed before that putting people for a structure second is an issue, right? But besides that, right? Where do people struggle and make mistakes?

Mark Abbott (00:09:56 -> 00:10:01)

So, yeah. So we, so we're gonna assume we know how to do structure, right? So now

Cole Abbott (00:10:01 -> 00:10:04)

Briefly touch on it if you want to. Yeah. But, right.

Mark Abbott (00:10:04 -> 00:17:06)

So, you know, structure basically means that every single seed in the company has a very specific, um, objective. In order for them to achieve that objective, there's required skills and experiences associated with, um, being able to comfortably sit in that seat. And, and, uh, you know, we talk about C, c, C, right? So you're competent, you're committed, and you have the capacity to, to sit in that seat and excel and, and grow with that seat as appropriate for the way the company's growing. So, you know, first things first is, you know, making sure that someone is you, they, they belong in that seat, that their right seat. So, um, you know, the entering process around the skills and the experiences and understanding whether or not, um, you're confident that when they come on board and you've done a reasonably good job of onboarding them. And our philosophy is, you know, if we think it's gonna take more than 90 days to onboard someone and let someone run in their seat, they're probably not ready for the seat. So, um, so, you know, within 90 days, we think they're gonna be up and running and willing to, and capable of handling all the sort of requirements associated with that seat, that roles and the accountability and responsibilities associated with that seat. So that's, uh, that's, that's, that's right. Seat. And, you know, it's interesting, I think, um, I think a lot of people, uh, don't do a particularly good job of, um, making sure that people c ccc the seat, uh, in part because they probably haven't done the real work on getting the roles and accountabilities and responsibilities for the seat nailed, number one. Number two, figuring out what the required skills and experiences are there. Um, and the innate problem solving, right? So we're big kolby people, so the innate solving problem preferences for that seat. So getting a Colby C done and making sure that the individual's, Colby and the Colby C are pretty well aligned, right? So you're not trying to put some, um, low fact finding, low follow through person in a, in a, in a high fact finding, high follow through requirement required, um, problem solving, skillset seat. And so, you know, so, so back to, right? So first things first, get the seat figured out. Um, get the roles and accountabilities and responsibilities figured out. Get the required skills and experiences figured out. Uh, get the, get the problem solving preferences, Colby C and Colby a stuff figured out, and making sure that you're not, you know, I I, it sounds hard when I say it, but you're not slamming a square peg into a round hole, um, in terms of, uh, in terms of, um, the human versus the seat, because obviously that's not good for the human or the seat. Uh, and, and, you know, either the human's gonna break or the seat's gonna break and it just doesn't work. So that's right. Seats. Um, and then, you know, once you get really good at, uh, then you gotta get really good at interviewing for behavioral fit. Um, and, you know, there's a lot of ways to do that. But, you know, getting really good around, um, you want more than one person, you know, everybody in our company, when they're in an interviewing process, they take on some of the core values and, and so resilience. So give us some examples of, you know, where you've not gotten knocked down. I mean, some good ones, right? And, and, and how you got back up and what helped you get back up and why you got back up. Right? Give us some good examples of being inquisitive and, and how you were able to demonstrate that in prior, prior, prior seats. And then walk through, you know, we end up walking through all of six of the core values, and we try really hard to have a sense of whether or not people ex will exemplify, you know, all of them. But if someone's like, you know, they exemplify five outta six and the the six one, it's kinda like, yeah, they're, they're good, but not great. Um, that's okay with us. Um, but, you know, if it's clear that, especially clear if like, you know, when they're, when you're interviewing them and they're talking about stuff, you can tell they're not a team player, then that's not gonna work for us. Uh, you know, you can tell that there's a lot of stories where they got knocked down and they're just, I'm sorry, they're just bitter about it. That's not gonna work for us. Um, because ultimately of a victim mentality kind of thing, right? That's not resilient. That's Yeah. That's not gonna, that doesn't work, right? Um, and so, you know, ultimately you want to get through there and, and, and, you know, we go even further than that because, you know, when I talk about, when I write about trust and I write about connections, it's not just core values, right? It's goals and it's interests and it's passion. Um, it is core values. Um, but, you know, ultimately one of the things that we do, um, is we're pretty good at figuring out whether someone really genuinely wants to be here. Um, whether they, they, whether they're very attracted to the mission of the company, they're very attracted to who we're supporting and why we support them. They're very attracted to the, the, the core values. They're very attracted to the opportunity for growth. And, um, and so, you know, if, as an example, and probably should or shouldn't say this right, in this forum, but, um, you know, if, if we know that someone's like, it's just like, it's all about money and it's us versus another J job offer, we're like, go at it, have it right? No. Right. If all else is being is equal and it's just about the money, then that's not a good core value fit for us because of that, that it's not a good cultural fit for us because of these other dynamics that we're talking about. Right? And so, um, you know, for us, core values is an important component of the um right people, but we go beyond core values to make sure that they're really a right person, right? That they genuinely think what we're doing is cool. They genuinely like, like can see themselves growing and they can, they genuinely get sort of like some things, like how much we want to build high trust relationships with all of our ideal stakeholders. So they, they, they, everybody that we hire, I think the vast, vast, vast majority of 'em appreciate the, the bigger picture that we're, that we're focused on. And so, you know, it's like, you know, we just got great place to work and it was 98%, which is awesome, right? Um, of our people thought it was a great place to work. And I think it's because everybody cares. Um, and they care about all of the ideal stakeholders. It's not just like, they don't care just about their team or worse just about themselves, right? They get the bigger picture and they're interested in the bigger picture, and they love mattering and being a part of a company that's doing work that matters. So that's also a part of the right people stuff. And I think we've done a pretty good job, right?

Cole Abbott (00:17:07 -> 00:17:24)

Because I, I think we do a good job. I think we have a good team Yeah. Doing that. And when we do make mistakes, we learn from them and we implement those lessons, right? Yeah. I don't think we've really had, but I can't think of any repeated people issues,

Mark Abbott (00:17:24 -> 00:17:27)

Right. Which is around a certain type of thing,

Cole Abbott (00:17:28 -> 00:17:53)

Right? Like we're, where something was an issue. Yeah. And then that issue came up again, right? I mean, yeah. Usually it's, it doesn't happen more than twice. I can't think of anything really happening twice. Yeah. Which is pretty amazing. Yeah. Uh, and, and I think with the, the core values thing, right? That's in order to work at the company, you have create core values fit, and then we, right. Then it's the seat thing. Yeah. And then it would write, taking all that kolby all his personality metrics. Yeah,

Mark Abbott (00:17:54 -> 00:17:54)


Cole Abbott (00:17:54 -> 00:17:55)

And using that. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:17:56 -> 00:19:33)

Or Kolby and, and our, and our type coach and then our version of Enneagram, right? But the kolby is to make sure we're not putting square pegs in round holes. And then, you know, the, the, the type coach and the, and our version of Enneagram, those are just helping us with self-awareness and other awareness. And I think that what's been really interesting, 'cause when, you know, I first started doing this, which from the very beginning of the company, you know, there's a part of me, um, that was like, would people, like, why are you doing all this stuff? But I, I, we've, we've hired, obviously we have 185 people. We've had some turnover. So let's just say we've hired, I don't know, in, in the history of the company, 250 people. I mean, maybe one person is like, you know, why? And then when you explain not why more than that, but maybe one person is actually, I don't even think one person has said like, that's uncool. It's like, no, I love it that you're trying to help people be self-aware and aware of others. And I love it that you guys all, when you're doing your zooms, everybody's numbers and letters are there. That's a really, you know, wonderful thing about our work from anywhere. 'cause you're always being reminded about the other humans, and we're all trying to be, hey, yeah, yeah. It's not, it's not me versus you that's getting conflict right now. There's a little bit of, you want lots of facts, and I don't need all the facts, and we're kind of going fast, and you want me to go slower than I want to go right now. And we, like, we just, we lean into meeting each other where, where we are. And, um, and I think that's, you know, that's just a little piece of the cultural thing that, that I think we do reasonably well.

Cole Abbott (00:19:34 -> 00:20:04)

Yeah. Because you'll, something will happen. And then you look at the, the numbers like, okay, yeah, <laugh> all right, I didn't, I should have Yeah. You know, then it sort of flips that perspective from how could you screw this up to, right. Why did I put you in a position to fail? Right. And that happens, right? And, and it's sort of, I think there's a compounding nature Yeah. To avoiding that unnecessary conflict, right. And, and Right. And that over time builds trust more so than I think we realize.

Mark Abbott (00:20:04 -> 00:20:49)

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and then you're also, so sometimes it's like, why did I do that? And sometimes it's like, oh yeah, I get it. Right. Right. Um, you know, you're getting into a conversation, like me as an nt getting into a conversation with an NF is like, like, especially like an ENFP, right? Where the, you know, the e is actually thinking out loud. And so you got that going on, and then the NF is like, you know, really focusing in on the emotional, the human side. Right? You got that going on, and then you got the P which is alright, trying to just like, like play with the ideas as opposed to my J which is like, can we just make a bloody decision and move on? Right. <laugh>. And so you're just like, you know, so you're, you're just like, you're at peace with the game that's being played. Right. Which is cool.

Cole Abbott (00:20:50 -> 00:20:50)

Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.

Mark Abbott (00:20:51 -> 00:20:51)


Cole Abbott (00:20:51 -> 00:21:13)

Yeah. Because so many times, right, for me being a, a strong J, that I feel the, can we just make a decision and move on from this thing? Yeah. Uh, and, and then, right. If you're in a Zoom, you can see who is like, who do you have to play to in order to accomplish that thing? If you want to view it as a game. Yeah. Right. Which it isn't also kind of is, but

Mark Abbott (00:21:13 -> 00:21:32)

It, but it, but I, you know, you taught me this one, right? It's the, the, it's, it's, it's not the game. When people think about game, you know, they tend to think about like, I'm playing a game with you and this is a win or lose game. Um, but the game is to be invited, invited back to the game.

Cole Abbott (00:21:33 -> 00:21:36)

Right? Yeah. That's, that's a crucial component. It's a, to the game.

Mark Abbott (00:21:36 -> 00:21:49)

It's like, if you love the game, right? You love doing the work you're doing and you love doing it with the people you're doing it with, and you love serving the people that you serve, then it's like, I want, I wanna get back, you know, I wanna get back to next. I wanna get invited back for the next game. Right.

Cole Abbott (00:21:49 -> 00:22:01)

It's not even that deep. It's just do you like the game? Yes. Do you wanna keep playing the game? Yes. Okay. One of the things that is required in order to keep playing is that you get invited back. Yeah. It's not that complicated. It's,

Mark Abbott (00:22:01 -> 00:22:04)

It's not. But none of this is that complicated. I know <laugh>,

Cole Abbott (00:22:04 -> 00:22:33)

But Right. And then depends on what game you're playing. Yeah. Part of the core values thing and all that is that we're making sure we're all playing a similar game with the same objectives. Yeah. Because the game in that case is not to win. Right. The debate. Right. That's not what we're about. Yeah. But if I'm playing right, if I'm playing football, I'm not into my quarterback, I'm not gonna pass it to a lineman. Right. Obviously, hopefully not. Well, you know, maybe that's the design play, but that's the,

Mark Abbott (00:22:33 -> 00:22:34)

Unless we called it,

Cole Abbott (00:22:34 -> 00:23:03)

We told this, we told the we report. I'm assuming we didn't report here <laugh>. But, but I, I'm looking at what players I need Right. Who we can use to best accomplish the goal. Yeah. And it's nice to have all these things be explicit Yeah. So that I can read the playbook Yeah. And call an audible in that moment. Yeah. Right. Without having to memorize, okay, this person works this way, this person works this way. 'cause that doesn't work when you have 180 people. Right, right. And we're all about making it scalable. Yeah. So yeah. That's, it's crucial to

Mark Abbott (00:23:03 -> 00:24:31)

Have that. Yeah. And, and, and you know, I think, you know, you and I are both kind of, uh, you know, we have the three tools that we, with three, three tools that we, we we leverage all the time, you know, Colby and, and type coach and, and, and, and print. Right. Which is our version of Enneagram. And then, you know, there's, there's, there's at least one other tool that you and I use all the time as well that we talk about potentially bringing into the organization. There's pros and cons, but it's, it's the big five and in particular, right. The one area where I think you and I think we potentially could do a better job of helping people in the organization understand is agreeableness versus disagreeableness. Right. Be just because someone's, you know, not necessarily agreeable doesn't make them not a team player. Right. It's just, you know, and, and we have our theories, we've talked about this before in terms of the, you know, the five archetypes of, of entrepreneurs and, and you know, one of our to be tested theories is that, you know, that, uh, that the more intentional entrepreneurs, um, are probably a little bit more disagreeable on average than the average human being because you know, at some point you gotta make a bloody decision. Right. Um, at some point, you know, you just, you just, you just have to say no. And for some people saying no is harder than for other people. Right?

Cole Abbott (00:24:31 -> 00:25:01)

Yeah. And I, and I think with the big five, it's, to me, it's always the easiest thing to assess somebody off, off of with just a conversation. Yeah. Um, and so, and so I think the value with that could be as simple as just making sure people are aware of the traits Yeah. And are educated on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause if you know that and you, you have that context. Yeah. Then if someone's being weird, you can just go to that. Yeah. And, and, and make sure that Yeah. And make sure that checks out right. Before trying, before allowing that to escalate in your

Mark Abbott (00:25:01 -> 00:25:48)

Mind. Right. And then, and then it just gets down to, alright, are, is this disagreeable human Right? Are they disagreeing just to disagree? Right. That's a game that they're playing, whether it's in, in, in intentional or, um, um, not Right. Or whether it's, whatever the term I'm looking for is not intentional, whether they're aware of it or not. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Right. Um, or you know, are they genuinely just like, no, this is what makes sense and I'm, I'm confident I can explain myself. And, and so then it's the agreeable folks who are like, well, wait a second, why you're being disagreeable and why aren't we working on this more? And, and so I think that's an area where we could, where we could be better. And I think you're right. Just being aware of the traits pretty huge and being aware that the trait is not a negative trait per se. Right. There's value in the trait.

Cole Abbott (00:25:48 -> 00:26:15)

No, no. None of the big five traits are inherently negative. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, within an organization you could argue low conscientiousness is a problem, but that's a separate discussion. Right. But Right. If you have low agreeableness and low openness Yeah. That could be an issue. Yeah. But if, if there's a lot of people at at 90 who are low in agreeableness with very high in openness. Yes. And so that's, you know, I I think from a executive standpoint, I think that's a healthy mix.

Mark Abbott (00:26:15 -> 00:26:19)

Well, and there, and back to your point, not to be 90, you know,

Cole Abbott (00:26:19 -> 00:26:22)

Whatever. Well that's just, that's the world we're in, right. So we're gonna talk about it <laugh>. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:26:22 -> 00:27:03)

But, um, but I was gonna say, not to be, you know, like, like patting ourselves on the back here. 'cause that's not the game here, obviously. Um, but we also have a lot of very conscientious people, especially at the senior leadership team and the c-suite level. And, um, you know, I do think that particularly in a commercial world where you're trying to build something and you're trying to, right, you're trying to make everything as explicit, coherent, resonant as you possibly can so that you can attract and retain and scale and, and do all the things that you need to do in order to build a great company. Um, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you know, having a bunch of highly conscientious is actually a pretty good thing.

Cole Abbott (00:27:03 -> 00:27:36)

Yeah. And you're gonna have, there's a double bias on that because the people that are gonna be selecting that pool is going to be filled with people who are conscientious. Yeah. The higher up in, in stratum you go. Yeah. Right. It's gonna be hard to be a low conscientious level four. Right. Or stratum four Yeah. Individual. Yeah. And also given our values and our growth, we're also selecting for conscientious people out of that already conscientious pool. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not an intentional thing. We're not going out seeking that, but that's gonna be a bi

Mark Abbott (00:27:37 -> 00:28:07)

It's what's happened. It's just what's happened. Right? Yeah. Um, so, and then obviously, you know, if you have a low conscientious, you know, if, if you're, if you're in, if your culture is just low conscientious everywhere, you know, it just turns into kind of a free for all. And I don't know, I, I, I, you know, I actually, it'd be interesting to study organizations that have, you know, sort of almost, you know, no real conscious, well

Cole Abbott (00:28:07 -> 00:28:32)

Conscious. If you're not conscientious, you're not gonna be orderly. It's, you're not gonna have the structure and you're also not gonna, you're not gonna Right. Because work is by definition sacrificing the present for the future. Yeah. We're doing things now in hopes that it will make things better in the future, and that's what conscientiousness is. Yeah. And uh, on that note, we just had a great podcast on conscientiousness <laugh>, so Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:28:32 -> 00:28:36)

Maybe there's a part two here on, I don't know, you'll, we'll have to figure that one out. Well yeah,

Cole Abbott (00:28:36 -> 00:28:40)

Yeah. I'm sure there'll be a part two too. The big five. Yeah. As a framework. Yeah.

Mark Abbott (00:28:40 -> 00:28:40)


Cole Abbott (00:28:41 -> 00:28:43)

Cool. Go into way more detail there. Yep.

Mark Abbott (00:28:43 -> 00:28:44)

Thank you. Thanks.